20.12.03
Finals... are... finally... over... holy... crap... i didn't fail bio like i thought i did... hallelujah...
However... my brain... is dead...
Can't wait for next year...
Becca is coming back!... our lovely missing link...
Dave will be back... that's good... i GUESS :P ...
STARTING OVER WITH GRADES... that is a blessing...
working in prof. swensen's lab... 9hrs a freakin week...
writing a proposal to get the funding to work in her lab for the summer so i can get paid...
working at CC...
For break though...
I am going to WORK as MUCH as possible...
I am going to READ as MUCH as possible...
I am going to watch MOVIES for FREE as MUCH as possible.... (namely, RETURN OF THE KING)
I am going to rest my little brain...
well... off to mike's for the day/night/morning...
However... my brain... is dead...
Can't wait for next year...
Becca is coming back!... our lovely missing link...
Dave will be back... that's good... i GUESS :P ...
STARTING OVER WITH GRADES... that is a blessing...
working in prof. swensen's lab... 9hrs a freakin week...
writing a proposal to get the funding to work in her lab for the summer so i can get paid...
working at CC...
For break though...
I am going to WORK as MUCH as possible...
I am going to READ as MUCH as possible...
I am going to watch MOVIES for FREE as MUCH as possible.... (namely, RETURN OF THE KING)
I am going to rest my little brain...
well... off to mike's for the day/night/morning...
16.12.03
so... a "discussion" on affirmative action, racism, etc....
It all began because of this in Josh's profile:
"The value of a racially integrated student body or work force lies
entirely in the individualism it implies. It implies that the students
or workers were chosen objectively, with skin color ignored in favor
of the standard of individual merit. But that is not what "diversity"
advocates want. They sneer at the principle of "color-blindness." They
want decisions on college or job applicants to be made exactly as the
vilest of racists make them: by bloodline. They insist that whatever
is a result of your own choices--your ideas, your character, your
accomplishments--is to be dismissed, while that which is outside your
control--the accident of skin color--is to define your life."
I disagree with it. A LOT
Then, I asked some people about their opinions... namely, Jesse. I'm gonna put in only the "highlights..."
me: what do you think of this quote in someone's profile
me: "The value of a racially integrated student body or work force lies
entirely in the individualism it implies. It implies that the students
or workers were chosen objectively, with skin color ignored in favor
of the standard of individual merit. But that is not what "diversity"
advocates want. They sneer at the principle of "color-blindness." They
want decisions on college or job applicants to be made exactly as the
vilest of racists make them: by bloodline. They insist that whatever
is a result of your own choices--your ideas, your character, your
accomplishments--is to be dismissed, while that which is outside your
control--the accident of skin color--is to define your life."
Jesse: ooh, i like that
me: pfft
me: i dislike that
Jesse: why?
me: this would've been part of my response to it
me: while it is evident that such things as affirmative action does take race into consideration, you must at the same time realize how it works. It doesn't give as much advantage as you might believe. I would hope that you realize at the same time that in US at least, there is a social/economical difference between races, and of course gender. Comparing income of middle to upper class people. Even with the same jobs and title, caucasians usually have a higher income than others. It isn't a rumor, it's a fact. The laws/ policies that aids in decision for admittance to colleges or jobs, is there to protect the minorities. You would be sorely mistake if you believe that it is anything otherwise. There shouldn't be a comparison between a racist and a person advocating for programs such as affirmative action. And it's true that it
me: obviously i didn't finish my thought
me: haha
me: i think it's unfair to compare racists
me: and advocates
me: of the
me: policies/laws
me: because it isn't sneering at the color blindness principle
Jesse: race and economic/social standing are confounding variables
Jessey: not all black people are poor
me: exactly
Jesse: not all white people are rich
me: that's why myexample
me: was
me: specifically
me: middle/upper class
me: it's a comparison
me: see
me: ?
Jesse: i think its awful to divide people by skin color
me: I think it's awful to ignore it
me: I think it's awful to give people a chance to deny minorities
Jesse: i dont believe in discrimination
me: while not all organizations will use it to discriminate
me: it is a tool that aids in a step toward preventing such things
me: You can't say that I could apply for college
Jesse: its a tool though that puts the 'majority' at a disadvangtage
me: how much disadvantage
me: do you know how affirmative action works?
me: for example
me: i know parts of it, and i know that a lot of people believe that it gives some HUGE advantage
me: which it doesn't
Jesse: so whats the point?
me: and yes race isn't a choice
me: but neither is family wealth
me: neither are circumstances where you are in a good school system
me: and that can heavily determine in an application process
Jesse: and i have no problem with those things being considered on college apps
me: but wealth can very much be disadvantages to unwealthy
me: especially in private school settings
me: are you saying that white people don't have an advantage?
Jesse: no, they dont
me: how could you say that
me: when history proves that they do
me: when there are still discrimination socially, in the schools, in the jobs
Jesse: because i went to a bad high school with lots of poor white kids, and there was one black kid who happened to have money and he was so much better off than most of the white kids
me: how big is your town
me: and
me: ONE BLACK KID
me: are you serious
Jesse: yes
me: that's your argument?
Jesse: lol
me: that's inadequate
Jesse: no listen
me: how big is your town
Jesse: 2,000 people or something
Jesse: you cant prove to me that white people have an advantage that others dont on the sole basis of skin color
me: are you serious
me: come to los angeles
me: i will show you PLENTY
Jesse: so peopel get put into bad schools simply because they're black?
me: ...
me: no hun
me: read what i said again
me: where did i say that
me: i'm comparing how race isn't a choice
me: neither is wealth of family
me: or the circumstances of where you go to school
Jesse: yes i understand
me: and wealth
Jesse: but you cant say that race directly determines the quality of your opportunities
me: actually in a lot of situations
me: of which i could name a few
me: that happened to me, or that i've observed
Jesse: name one
me: i went to a job interview
me: wanna know why they didn't hire me?
Jesse: why?
me: because i wasn't white
me: and they said it to my face
Jesse: how do you know?
me: they said it
me: to
Jesse: they said that to you?
me: my face
me: YES
Jesse: then you are allowed to sue them for discrimination
me: this was a company of mostly white upper class men
me: really
me: i don't have the funds to hire an attorney
me: really
me: i don't have the money to go to this school
me: my parents do not earn enough
me: i have loans
me: i have grants
Jesse: so do i though
me: i paid for my own tuition
Jesse: and there are white kids with less money than you
me: no shit
me: lemme ask you
Jesse: ok
me: do you think this campus is diverse?
Jesse: no
Jesse: everyone has the same ideas
Jesse: for the most part
me: do you know that people think it IS diverse?
Jesse: theyre all hippies for th most part
Jesse: they do?
me: last year
Jesse: what do you mean by diverse?
me: in my intro to soc class, there were people saying how IC is getting TOO diverse, promotes TOO MUCH DIVERSITY
me: as in racially diverse
Jesse: any qualified applicant should be allowed admission
me: um
me: the world doesn't work with shoulds
me: not could be
me: not would be
me: it is
Jesse: affirmative action is a flawed policy
Jesse: it is racist
Jesse: it segregates people with no scientific or definitive process
Jesse: and assigns value judgments to them
Jesse: it generalizes, it stereotypes
Jesse: it is beneath the dignity of any institution of higher education to institute such a policy
me: do you know what white flight is?
me: it's a random question
me: but just wanted to know
Jesse: yes
me: that's racist
me: whether you realize it or not
Jesse: yes and its also not a policy
me: you had an advantage over me
me: when being admitted to this school
Jesse: i had no such advantage
me: open your eyes... LOOK at our campus...
me: do you know where IC goes to promote itself?
me: JAMACA
Jesse: why do they do that?
me: i dunno
me: but it's a DUMB DUMB idea
Jesse: is that why we have so many jamaicans?
me: i definitely know people who applied here
me: yup
me: and didn't come
me: you know why?
me: it's not diverse
me: it's SCARY
me: do you realize that
me: i'm trying to make you understand
me: it's hard
Jesse: i understand what youre saying
Jesse: and i see your points
me: then you realize that minorities face discrimination everyday
Jesse: ok, let me tell you something
me: go for it
Jesse: this is gonna sound harsh
Jesse: and unfair
Jesse: but alas, this is the truth
me: go ahead... i'm sure i'll have some rebutal :-P
Jesse: if minorities want to be treated truly equally, they must win the respect of "white people" and in order to do that, they have to work hard, on their own, and on the terms of the "white people" and thats not my opinion, i htink thats awful, but thats what has to happen
Jesse: affirmative action wont do it
Jesse: look at condoleezza rice
me: OH MY GOD
me: did you just say that
Jesse: listen to me
me: why do minorities need respect from white people
me: why should they WORK to be treated equally
Jesse: because this society does not just hand stuff to people
Jesse: even the disadvantaged
me: that's racist
me: is that what you believe
me: that the world works like that
me: and that it's right because it does...
me: do you think it's okay because you said
me: it's awful
Jesse: i dont think its ok
me: do you think it's okay for you to believe thats how the world should work and does work because you said "that's awful"?
Jesse: look at condoleezza rice
me: what about her
me: because she's minority in the white house
Jesse: she got into a good college and a phd program because she was a brilliant scholar with super high grades, and she was an accomplished piano player
me: do you think that balances anything?
me: uh huh
me: do you realize
me: how hard that was?
Jesse: she suspended affirmative action when she was provost at stanford
me: and it shouldn't have been/
me: the above comment was about how hard it was
me: it's called politics...
me: there are social issuse
me: issues
Jesse: and she said that she had to beat white people on their own terms
me: that can not be fixed by politics
Jesse: cuz people who ar7e helped by affirmative action will not be respected
me: YOU don't get it then
me: she shouldn't have had to
me: she's like that old person in your family talks about how they walked 20 miles to school in the snow and sleet and how we shouldn't complain about rain
me: to put it in the general sense
Jesse: yes
Jesse: lol thats true
me: that's called stupidity... i realize how much you probably like her
me: but that's what i believe
Jesse: i respect that
Jesse: i believe that i didnt get into cornell because i was white
Jesse: had i been some other "race" i would have stood a better chance
me: really
me: what was your SAT score
Jesse: 1320
me: really
me: mine was 1410
me: i got in Cornell
Jesse: lol well good job
me: what do you say to a system that counted SAT as a better source of judgement
Jesse: what do you mean?
me: SAT which has been proven to be a BAD BAD tool in comparing students
me: UC systems are planning on not counting SAT scores as much
me: because it is a bad tool
me: and conceived as unfair
Jesse: thats a good idea
There will always be arguments for and against such policies as Affirmative Action, and I imagine I do not know as much as I could know about the subject. But, from what I do know, I believe that Affirmative Action is not a tool to give a person an advantage, but a tool to aid in a step toward equal opportunities.
If we were too look at data about the median net worth, the poorest fifth of blacks' median net worth is $250 compared to the median net worth of $7605 for the whites. The trend continues throughout the economic classes. Given that this data was collected in 1993, and the lack of jobs that are avaliable in the present day, it is guarenteed that the statistics are similar, if not worse.
I know I'm opinionated, but it's taken me a long time to read about, research about the topics that I am passionate about and strongly believe in. If you can provide me with good opposite argument that I would understand, great. Can't wait to debate w/ you!
Meanwhile, just an interesting link on the myths of affirmative action:
It all began because of this in Josh's profile:
"The value of a racially integrated student body or work force lies
entirely in the individualism it implies. It implies that the students
or workers were chosen objectively, with skin color ignored in favor
of the standard of individual merit. But that is not what "diversity"
advocates want. They sneer at the principle of "color-blindness." They
want decisions on college or job applicants to be made exactly as the
vilest of racists make them: by bloodline. They insist that whatever
is a result of your own choices--your ideas, your character, your
accomplishments--is to be dismissed, while that which is outside your
control--the accident of skin color--is to define your life."
I disagree with it. A LOT
Then, I asked some people about their opinions... namely, Jesse. I'm gonna put in only the "highlights..."
me: what do you think of this quote in someone's profile
me: "The value of a racially integrated student body or work force lies
entirely in the individualism it implies. It implies that the students
or workers were chosen objectively, with skin color ignored in favor
of the standard of individual merit. But that is not what "diversity"
advocates want. They sneer at the principle of "color-blindness." They
want decisions on college or job applicants to be made exactly as the
vilest of racists make them: by bloodline. They insist that whatever
is a result of your own choices--your ideas, your character, your
accomplishments--is to be dismissed, while that which is outside your
control--the accident of skin color--is to define your life."
Jesse: ooh, i like that
me: pfft
me: i dislike that
Jesse: why?
me: this would've been part of my response to it
me: while it is evident that such things as affirmative action does take race into consideration, you must at the same time realize how it works. It doesn't give as much advantage as you might believe. I would hope that you realize at the same time that in US at least, there is a social/economical difference between races, and of course gender. Comparing income of middle to upper class people. Even with the same jobs and title, caucasians usually have a higher income than others. It isn't a rumor, it's a fact. The laws/ policies that aids in decision for admittance to colleges or jobs, is there to protect the minorities. You would be sorely mistake if you believe that it is anything otherwise. There shouldn't be a comparison between a racist and a person advocating for programs such as affirmative action. And it's true that it
me: obviously i didn't finish my thought
me: haha
me: i think it's unfair to compare racists
me: and advocates
me: of the
me: policies/laws
me: because it isn't sneering at the color blindness principle
Jesse: race and economic/social standing are confounding variables
Jessey: not all black people are poor
me: exactly
Jesse: not all white people are rich
me: that's why myexample
me: was
me: specifically
me: middle/upper class
me: it's a comparison
me: see
me: ?
Jesse: i think its awful to divide people by skin color
me: I think it's awful to ignore it
me: I think it's awful to give people a chance to deny minorities
Jesse: i dont believe in discrimination
me: while not all organizations will use it to discriminate
me: it is a tool that aids in a step toward preventing such things
me: You can't say that I could apply for college
Jesse: its a tool though that puts the 'majority' at a disadvangtage
me: how much disadvantage
me: do you know how affirmative action works?
me: for example
me: i know parts of it, and i know that a lot of people believe that it gives some HUGE advantage
me: which it doesn't
Jesse: so whats the point?
me: and yes race isn't a choice
me: but neither is family wealth
me: neither are circumstances where you are in a good school system
me: and that can heavily determine in an application process
Jesse: and i have no problem with those things being considered on college apps
me: but wealth can very much be disadvantages to unwealthy
me: especially in private school settings
me: are you saying that white people don't have an advantage?
Jesse: no, they dont
me: how could you say that
me: when history proves that they do
me: when there are still discrimination socially, in the schools, in the jobs
Jesse: because i went to a bad high school with lots of poor white kids, and there was one black kid who happened to have money and he was so much better off than most of the white kids
me: how big is your town
me: and
me: ONE BLACK KID
me: are you serious
Jesse: yes
me: that's your argument?
Jesse: lol
me: that's inadequate
Jesse: no listen
me: how big is your town
Jesse: 2,000 people or something
Jesse: you cant prove to me that white people have an advantage that others dont on the sole basis of skin color
me: are you serious
me: come to los angeles
me: i will show you PLENTY
Jesse: so peopel get put into bad schools simply because they're black?
me: ...
me: no hun
me: read what i said again
me: where did i say that
me: i'm comparing how race isn't a choice
me: neither is wealth of family
me: or the circumstances of where you go to school
Jesse: yes i understand
me: and wealth
Jesse: but you cant say that race directly determines the quality of your opportunities
me: actually in a lot of situations
me: of which i could name a few
me: that happened to me, or that i've observed
Jesse: name one
me: i went to a job interview
me: wanna know why they didn't hire me?
Jesse: why?
me: because i wasn't white
me: and they said it to my face
Jesse: how do you know?
me: they said it
me: to
Jesse: they said that to you?
me: my face
me: YES
Jesse: then you are allowed to sue them for discrimination
me: this was a company of mostly white upper class men
me: really
me: i don't have the funds to hire an attorney
me: really
me: i don't have the money to go to this school
me: my parents do not earn enough
me: i have loans
me: i have grants
Jesse: so do i though
me: i paid for my own tuition
Jesse: and there are white kids with less money than you
me: no shit
me: lemme ask you
Jesse: ok
me: do you think this campus is diverse?
Jesse: no
Jesse: everyone has the same ideas
Jesse: for the most part
me: do you know that people think it IS diverse?
Jesse: theyre all hippies for th most part
Jesse: they do?
me: last year
Jesse: what do you mean by diverse?
me: in my intro to soc class, there were people saying how IC is getting TOO diverse, promotes TOO MUCH DIVERSITY
me: as in racially diverse
Jesse: any qualified applicant should be allowed admission
me: um
me: the world doesn't work with shoulds
me: not could be
me: not would be
me: it is
Jesse: affirmative action is a flawed policy
Jesse: it is racist
Jesse: it segregates people with no scientific or definitive process
Jesse: and assigns value judgments to them
Jesse: it generalizes, it stereotypes
Jesse: it is beneath the dignity of any institution of higher education to institute such a policy
me: do you know what white flight is?
me: it's a random question
me: but just wanted to know
Jesse: yes
me: that's racist
me: whether you realize it or not
Jesse: yes and its also not a policy
me: you had an advantage over me
me: when being admitted to this school
Jesse: i had no such advantage
me: open your eyes... LOOK at our campus...
me: do you know where IC goes to promote itself?
me: JAMACA
Jesse: why do they do that?
me: i dunno
me: but it's a DUMB DUMB idea
Jesse: is that why we have so many jamaicans?
me: i definitely know people who applied here
me: yup
me: and didn't come
me: you know why?
me: it's not diverse
me: it's SCARY
me: do you realize that
me: i'm trying to make you understand
me: it's hard
Jesse: i understand what youre saying
Jesse: and i see your points
me: then you realize that minorities face discrimination everyday
Jesse: ok, let me tell you something
me: go for it
Jesse: this is gonna sound harsh
Jesse: and unfair
Jesse: but alas, this is the truth
me: go ahead... i'm sure i'll have some rebutal :-P
Jesse: if minorities want to be treated truly equally, they must win the respect of "white people" and in order to do that, they have to work hard, on their own, and on the terms of the "white people" and thats not my opinion, i htink thats awful, but thats what has to happen
Jesse: affirmative action wont do it
Jesse: look at condoleezza rice
me: OH MY GOD
me: did you just say that
Jesse: listen to me
me: why do minorities need respect from white people
me: why should they WORK to be treated equally
Jesse: because this society does not just hand stuff to people
Jesse: even the disadvantaged
me: that's racist
me: is that what you believe
me: that the world works like that
me: and that it's right because it does...
me: do you think it's okay because you said
me: it's awful
Jesse: i dont think its ok
me: do you think it's okay for you to believe thats how the world should work and does work because you said "that's awful"?
Jesse: look at condoleezza rice
me: what about her
me: because she's minority in the white house
Jesse: she got into a good college and a phd program because she was a brilliant scholar with super high grades, and she was an accomplished piano player
me: do you think that balances anything?
me: uh huh
me: do you realize
me: how hard that was?
Jesse: she suspended affirmative action when she was provost at stanford
me: and it shouldn't have been/
me: the above comment was about how hard it was
me: it's called politics...
me: there are social issuse
me: issues
Jesse: and she said that she had to beat white people on their own terms
me: that can not be fixed by politics
Jesse: cuz people who ar7e helped by affirmative action will not be respected
me: YOU don't get it then
me: she shouldn't have had to
me: she's like that old person in your family talks about how they walked 20 miles to school in the snow and sleet and how we shouldn't complain about rain
me: to put it in the general sense
Jesse: yes
Jesse: lol thats true
me: that's called stupidity... i realize how much you probably like her
me: but that's what i believe
Jesse: i respect that
Jesse: i believe that i didnt get into cornell because i was white
Jesse: had i been some other "race" i would have stood a better chance
me: really
me: what was your SAT score
Jesse: 1320
me: really
me: mine was 1410
me: i got in Cornell
Jesse: lol well good job
me: what do you say to a system that counted SAT as a better source of judgement
Jesse: what do you mean?
me: SAT which has been proven to be a BAD BAD tool in comparing students
me: UC systems are planning on not counting SAT scores as much
me: because it is a bad tool
me: and conceived as unfair
Jesse: thats a good idea
There will always be arguments for and against such policies as Affirmative Action, and I imagine I do not know as much as I could know about the subject. But, from what I do know, I believe that Affirmative Action is not a tool to give a person an advantage, but a tool to aid in a step toward equal opportunities.
If we were too look at data about the median net worth, the poorest fifth of blacks' median net worth is $250 compared to the median net worth of $7605 for the whites. The trend continues throughout the economic classes. Given that this data was collected in 1993, and the lack of jobs that are avaliable in the present day, it is guarenteed that the statistics are similar, if not worse.
I know I'm opinionated, but it's taken me a long time to read about, research about the topics that I am passionate about and strongly believe in. If you can provide me with good opposite argument that I would understand, great. Can't wait to debate w/ you!
Meanwhile, just an interesting link on the myths of affirmative action:
3.12.03
haven't blogged a bit...
and since i had a lot of work to do... thought i'd blog....
anywho... i liked what i told someone else as some kind of advice or whatever it was... haha... so i'm gonna post it...
Psychopeaches777: my theory is
Psychopeaches777: that it never goes away
Psychopeaches777: whoever it is
Psychopeaches777: however long it was
Psychopeaches777: whenever it was
Psychopeaches777: it never goes away
Psychopeaches777: and now that person,
Psychopeaches777: whether you want to or not, is a part of you
Psychopeaches777: and you will always want it
Psychopeaches777: because you know what it tastes like
Psychopeaches777: and smells like
Psychopeaches777: and looks like
Psychopeaches777: and feels like
haha i guess it's just gibberish... but sounded pretty profound the other night... haha... oh well...
i'm tired
goodnight, world.
and since i had a lot of work to do... thought i'd blog....
anywho... i liked what i told someone else as some kind of advice or whatever it was... haha... so i'm gonna post it...
Psychopeaches777: my theory is
Psychopeaches777: that it never goes away
Psychopeaches777: whoever it is
Psychopeaches777: however long it was
Psychopeaches777: whenever it was
Psychopeaches777: it never goes away
Psychopeaches777: and now that person,
Psychopeaches777: whether you want to or not, is a part of you
Psychopeaches777: and you will always want it
Psychopeaches777: because you know what it tastes like
Psychopeaches777: and smells like
Psychopeaches777: and looks like
Psychopeaches777: and feels like
haha i guess it's just gibberish... but sounded pretty profound the other night... haha... oh well...
i'm tired
goodnight, world.
